LifanForum.com
General Category => Chit Chat => Topic started by: skadamo on October 06, 2007, 09:22:17 PM
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Has anyone purchased a TMS 200 from this ebay seller?
T Motorsports (http://stores.ebay.com/T-MOTORSPORTS)
The price is definitely great. Would be nice if it said Lifan instead of TMS but that might be why it is so inexpensive. About $1300 shipped.
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My first China bike was a red TMS LF200-III. It is the very same as an American Lifan LF200-III. while it does not say Lifan on the tank it does in the important places such as the swing arm and on the MCO :) :).
Almon
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I bought my TMS 200 from lifan-motorcycle-wholesale.com.
But, when recieved it, the crate stated T Motorsports on it. As well as the
MSO. Although, I bought it from the Internet dealer, I had to go throught T-Motorsports
to get my MSO. I had to call them and request a date when my MSO was sent and they told me to
call my dealer, then my dealer said I had to call them. I emailed them and finally got a reply.
Overall, it was a good sale, I got the bike in 2 weeks and the MSO in 3 weks.
Bike was in good condition, I love it.
But, on the site it said I would be buying a lifan GRX III, new arrival, and it was a 2008
version, but my MSO and bill of sale have it listed as a 2007 lifan model. Thus all the decals
are of a TMS model. It looks identical thought to the GRX, and everyone I have asked has told me it is the same bike with different decals.
No problem though, I would not know what the difference is anyway.
This is a cool little bike.
Bert
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Bert,
What you got was a gray market bike not a genuine Lifan. It does not suprise be that it said 2008 but was really a 2007. That's the kind of practice these guys are in. I'm sure it will work out just fine for you. Just don't try to get service performed at a Lifan dealer. I don't know what Tmotorsports actually has in stock. I bought a carb for a scooter from them once and it came from someone else in another part of California.
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Countrycruiser seems to have an axe to grind against any Lifan 200 not sold by American Lifan. The TMS200 motorcycles sold by T-Motorsports are manufactured by Lifan China at the very same plant as the ones sold by American LIfan. For the most part they are the same bike but some have a counter balanced cam shaft and some don't. Stryder's reliance on the Thumpertalk post is misplaced . From the Lifan china web here are two links to the common 163fml-2 engines crrently placed on most Lifan 200cc motorcycles.
http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8608&id=887 (http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8608&id=887)
http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8612&id=887 (http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8612&id=887)
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I don't think he has an axe to grind. He is just a little confused and who can blame him. China Lifan chose American Lifan to officially sell their bikes in the United States but China Lifan still sells to a lot of other importers.
At least from the big three, Rabbit, Hooper and TMS these bikes come from China Lifan, same bike, same city, same MCO/MSO and same plant. In fact there was a post the other day about the swing arm sticker reading imported by American Lifan on the Rabbit Scooters bikes (mine says this as well).
China Lifan has created a lot of confusion and I hope things are being worked out so the public knows what the truth is in the future.
Almon
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I messed up and posted the last message before I was finished. Countrycruiser seems to have an axe to grind against any Lifan 200 not sold by American Lifan. The TMS200 motorcycles sold by T-Motorsports are manufactured by Lifan China at the very same plant as the ones sold by American LIfan. For the most part they are the same bike but some have a counter balanced cam shaft and some don't. Stryder's reliance on the Thumpertalk post is misplaced . From the Lifan china web here are two links to the common 163fml-2 engines currently placed on most Lifan 200cc motorcycles.
http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8608&id=887 (http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8608&id=887)
http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8612&id=887 (http://www.lifan.com/en//product_list.asp?parentid=8612&id=887)
Both are pushrod and not OHC engines. Lifan does make a 163fml-Z2 OHC version but I am not aware of which motorcycle it is on. Gray market products are not to be confused with counterfeit products. Gray market products are genuine products that are distributed outside the normal distribution channels. It appears that Lifan China, as Almonpoole has correctly stated, hasn't settled on a clear vision of how it wants its products distributed in America. American Lifan sells products with the words "Lifan" painted on them. TMS, Rabbit and others and other sell nearly identical products, manufactured at the same Lifan factory with different words printed on them such as TMS200. As such, it appears to me that the TMS200 sold by T-motorsports is not a gray market Lifan motorcycle but motorcycle produced by Lifan for sale in the US without the Lifan brand name on it. All of the stickers and documents accompanying my TMS200 show it to be produced by Lifan. My research has convinced me that it is 98% identical to the American Lifan sold 200gy-5. If you need to have the services of a dealership to prepare and service your Lifan manufactured motorbike you probably should stick with an American Lifan dealer and pay the commensurate higher price.
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As such, it appears to me that the TMS200 sold by T-motorsports is not a gray market Lifan motorcycle but motorcycle produced by Lifan for sale in the US
HI. I think you just hit the nail right on the head, Thank you!
Buyingchina
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I would like to add this. Grey market Cannon cameras sold by some N.Y. dealers are genuine and the same quality. But they are marked Cannon. Unlike the bikes we are talking about.
These sellers offer lower prices with in house warranties to Attract buyers. However. you will not get warranty service from a official U.S.A. Cannon dealer.
Go ahead and laff, I'm a Gray 50!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market)
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walkingdude,
How inconciderate of you to put words in my mouth. I have no axe to grind here at all. The bikes manufactured by Lifan for markets other than American Lifan, i.e. Tmotorsports, Rabbitscooters, etc. are actually not gray markets at all. I am concerned about the units that say "Imported by American Lifan" but were purchased by and sold by Tmotorsports, Rabbit, etc.
Unknowing people who buy them are in many cases going back to American Lifan and/or their dealer network for warranty repairs and parts. That and only that is what I have a problem with.
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Walkingdude isn't the only one who seems to think that way. I would have sworn that you were a American Lifan dealer from your posts. My bad....
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Nope, no dealer here, just a 63 year old rider who has been in and around the good, gray and black markets from automobiles to telecommunications equipment and everything in between. In fact I bought a scooter from Rabbit last year and while not the best experience I've ever had, after some time, we did get things taken care of. I just want everyone to get their fare shake and folks who are tricked into thinking anything is not as it seems or is, are not getting their fare shake.
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I would like to add that a major goal of this forum is to help clear up confusing details about buying and owning a lifan.
Lets get the facts out here and help motorcyclists make educated decisions. I think everyone is doing that so far, i'm learning a lot.
From what I have read so far both Lifan America and other Lifan distributors provide value in two very good ways. One provides traditional support through a dealership the cost of which is baked into the price of the machine. The other guys provide non-traditonal support of varrying levels which usually translates to a lower priced machine. Have I generalized this to far?
I think "grey market" is a strong term. It is loaded with the conotation of being illegal. Can I recommend we not use the term "grey market" unless we can prove a company is breaking the law?
Am I off base here? Again, this is all intended to give everyone a fair shake and get the facts on the table.
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Hi Stryder,
You are correct. I have always thought there was room for two types of dealers.
1: The do it yourself kind of technical person who wants a good deal and can do the maintenance work him/her self.
2: The type of person who would like to have their bike serviced an does not want to mess with it much beyond riding it.
If you are a number (1) then you should probably buy from a direct importer, If you are a number (2) then you should buy from an American Lifan dealer as they have a dealer network.
What country cruiser was saying is that if you are a number (1) then don't take it to a American Lifan dealer because they will not work on it. This is a rule which I do not like but it is THEIR rule so if you want American Lifan to support your bike you should by one from them and do not complain about it if you buy from a direct importer and can't find service.
Parts are available all over the net and even some American Lifan dealers will sell you parts but you must install them yourself. Also they are not supposed to sell parts to non American Lifan bikes but some do anyway. Parts are also available from the dealer you purchased from, you should ask about parts availability before you buy from any dealer.
Those are the two choices. And if that does not confuse you then just wait, we are going to have no less than twenty five new bikes to filter through this year from various manufacturers. ;D
Almon
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CountyCruiser, no offense meant but maybe I am misreading your numerous posts "criticizing" purchases from others than Amercian Lifan. An example of your language:
"What you got was a gray market bike not a genuine Lifan."
The TMS200GY I bought from TMS was made by Lifan and is genuine in my eye. I think all those employees at the Lifan factory sweating over the work thought it was made by their company and plenty genuine. All of the documents I received with bike, the owner's manual and the invoice identify it as a Lifan. The manufacturer's stickers on the swing arm identify it as a Lifan. The VIN identifies it as a Lifan. The box it came in had "Lifan" printed on it. I've not heard of anyone buying a cycle from TMS or Rabbit wanting AL to provide service, let alone free service, for it. The TMS 200GY is a Lifan an not some grey market turd. My transaction with TMS was fine except for a minor issue with the MSO which was immediately fixed.
I've ground a few axes in my life and I could have sworn you were doing just that by your multiple disparaging statements. I was hopeful to hear the story that led to your dissatisfaction. Since that is not the case, and there is no story, sorry.
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So Countrycruiser says he does not have an axe to grind. Let's believe him and stay on topic.
walkingdude, those are all good points about the Lifan branding on your TMS. Seems based on this it is safe to assume it was manufactured by Lifan.
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Would you expect Suzuki to service a Chevy/Geo Metro? They are the same cars built by the same people in the same factory. They are just branded differently depending on the model the company is using. Is a Geo Metro a Grey Market Suzuki Swift made with substandard parts? Both are made for the American Market - as are Skygo, Roketa, TMS, or whatever have you. . .
A Grey Market Lifan would be one made for Britian, India, or Canada, but redirected to the USA.
The Grey Market is sometimes so strange that exporting an item, then re-importing that item to the country of origin is cheaper than just buying goods made for that specific market.
These Lifans are not Grey Market - they are just not marketed through American Lifan's business model - just as a Geo Metro is not a Suzuki Swift even though they are the same car.
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Both are made for the American Market - as are Skygo, Roketa, TMS, or whatever have you. . .
A Grey Market Lifan would be one made for Britian, India, or Canada, but redirected to the USA.
So your saying the Lifan’s branded by Skygo, Roketa, TMS, Galata are built by Lifan with the intention of selling them in the United States with the respective brand names on them.
If that is the case I agree, they should NOT be called “Grey Market”.
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If any of us went through enough hoops, we could get a crate full of motorcycles built by Lifan and you can have them branded "Stryderfan" or "Axe Grinder Special".
Right now China Lifan is transitioning their business model. With the IPO, it would seem they are trying to be more "American". This may or may not mean closing off the direct importer channels. Only time will tell. And these things do take time to develop, Roketa's or TMSs are still legal to purchase and are still made by Lifan in China - but what the future holds, who knows? If you want a crate of those "Stryderfan SF200 specials", you may have to get them now rather than later.
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So your saying the Lifan’s branded by Skygo, Roketa, TMS, Galata are built by Lifan with the intention of selling them in the United States with the respective brand names on them.
That is correct. Technically, these are not grey market bikes. In fact, here is a simple proof... look at the decals on them. They are applied at the factory and clear coated over... in the factory during the final finishing/painting process.
Bill
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mtliu,
Thank you very much. Finally someone else who really understands the subject. Maybe I wasn't being clear enough. There are still some concerns in my mind about those units sold by others that say "Imported By American Lifan". But, time to move on.
CC
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I can agree with the time to move on to another subject sentiment.
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I definitely understand a lot better now. Thanks for the info guys.