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Messages - shogun

Pages: 1
1
Engine Kits / Re: jincheng panda 138cc
« on: March 13, 2011, 06:09:30 PM »
Hey everyone. Been a while.
I still have my Lifan. Still works great!
Done some changes. Resprocketed it. It goes an honest 60mph. Also bought a 70cc pitbull from hooperimports. Great little bike. Fun

2
Pitbull / 70 Pitbull vs. 110 Trail Rider and improvements
« on: August 23, 2008, 09:00:55 AM »
How would i know? Well...i sell them. I own a 70cc Pitbull too. I am a seller for Hooper Imports (google it). I picked the pitbull and trail rider because they are copys of something that parts would be no problem getting. I will be totally honest here. The quality isnt honda , yet. what you do get is a good start especially if you plan on using and abusing your machine. The old Hondas are starting to be collected by boomers too so.....If you would want either one of these in a honda youd be paying at least twice to three times as much if you want a really nice example. If there is anybody that wants any motorcycle or scooter Hooper Imports sells and lives around central minnesota (or willing to drive) i will sell it completely assembled with a 6 month parts and labor warrantee for the same price. Long Beach Cycle, Glenwood MN 56334. 320-634-3022. Im a stay at home dad so call at anytime.

Now the showdown.

The 70cc Pitbull is a vast improvement over a Z50 in the power department. In my humble opinion a four stroke 50cc is dangerous on the street. The get up and go just isnt there. The pitbull also has an electric start....very nice. For tough trail riding the pitbull is great. The height and width is an advantage. Fewer branches in the face is good. Would be perfect transportation on a deer path. It has a super low first gear and can crawl up a very steep hill. It will climb as long as there is traction and forward weight distribution. Im 5'10" 165 lbs. I fit great. plenty of room to move, surprisingly. They have a big, if kinda ugly seat that is more comfortable than most large street bikes ive owned. The brakes, for drums, are pretty good. Hard to be great in this department for me since ive owned a few sportbikes with BRAKES! The handling is quick on the street and good on the open road. (40-45 mph comfotably. 50+ in full tuck.) Just keep you hands on both grips when your going good. No waving at pretty girls. The spedo is in mph and the odometer is in kilometers. Why? Dont know. Mileage is around 120 mpg in adverage driving. In sustained speeds on the highway i would think it would get around 150 mpg. You will have to convert kpg to mpg. Take your kgp and multiply it by .64 to get mph.
Improvements: Hooper Imports sells a honda like headlight bucket that is red (not chrome), shorter than the pitbull bucket, and with only one idiot light hole.  Very honda looking and big improvement. Ask for it specificly! Dont mess with sprockets. They are about pefect. Bigger engines are a great improvement to up to a 110cc auto clutch is straight  forward with only minor changes to the exhaust. (I expain on this forum how to put a big engine in a pitbull. Do a search if your interested). I have an ebay bought front end on mine. $365! it came with the forks, tripple clamp, top clamp, front disk, caliper, master cylinder, brake line berings and races. Eazy to instal. I did it mostly for the cool factor. I also mounted a set of original honda fenders. The fenders are a great look. BIG improvement.

The 110cc Trail Rider. Ive had an eazier time selling these do to the engine size and being a little taller. The 110cc electric start is better than the hondas 70cc engine as far as power goes. My opinion is that they handle a little goofy on the street. they fall going into sharp corners (not to the ground). for riding on a trail they are fine. The speedo like the Pitbull is in mph and the odometer is in kilometers too.  Ive had problems with the pressed rims having unacceptable (to me) runout to the point of me having to take them apart and clock the rims to make the rims wobble a little rather than bounce. Every one ive sold has had this problem to some degree. (the pitbulls rims are perfect) I told Larry from Hooper Imports and he half didnt belive me or thought i was exagerating. He said that he never had any complaints before. Maybe my customers and I expect better? there is a fix though...buy a set of used honda rims on ebay. The brakes work fine considering that they are the same brakes that are on a Pitbull. The trail rider is not really pretty in my opinion. It wasnt pretty as a honda either. The only advantages it has over the pitbull is like i said in the begining; height and engine size. 
Improvements: Honda rims if yours arent true. Honda fenders are much better quality. lock tight nuts and bolts on this one. Its not a bad motorcycle for the money. If you dont mind commiting a sin you can pull off the ugly graphics that come with the bike an put on honda stickers or leave it plain.

Verdict. the Pitbull unless you just dont fit on one. You can go on a diet if your fat but i dont recommend cutting your legs off at the knee if your too tall.

If i were Lifan......
I would start with a Pitbull. Drop a 110cc, 125cc or 138cc hand clutch electric start engine. Put on a shorter painted (not chrome) headlight bucket with only one quality looking idiot light (neutral light). The stock idiot lights look crappy. get rid of the annoying blinker beeper. QUALITY steel fenders. They wouldnt have be chromed. Get rid of the silly graphic on the side of the tank that are clear coated over (grrrrrr). Regular fork front with front hydraulic disk break (which they apparently already make). Find a better looking (Stanley style) tail light.
Options: Two paint options; red or in primer. Street tires. Aluminum rim halves. billet Engine dress up trinkets, etc.
I would spend more money in the fit and finish department and sell the motorcycle for around $1600.

3
How To / How to make a Big engined Pitbulll, Z50 or Funrider
« on: August 22, 2008, 06:34:27 PM »
I have a 138cc Lifan powered Funrider. Which is a copy of a Z50 like a Pitbull. The 138cc engine is longer than the 50cc-110cc Lifan engines. It also has a hand clutch. This makes putting the stock exhaust impossible without changes. I had an MX exhaust on it but it was way LOUD didnt idle well and had a midrange surge. Then i said to myself what the heck ill try to make the stock work. Now i have eazier starting, idles great, better midrange, much less lean surge and its much, much quieter which makes for a better commuter.
To make the stock exhaust work:
1 Take heat guards off.
2 Take right swing arm shock and exhaust off.
3 Cut off exhaust tip (the very end of the exhaust  that is between the right shock and the fender) off leaving only about a quarter inch stub. The remainder of the exhaust tip and difuser should fall out. If it doesnt take a grinder and grind the end until they become unwelded. You may need to use a flat ended puch an tap it a bit.
4 Using a rat tail file flile the ID of the end of the exhaust.
5 Make a eight inch long by one inch OD tube with a forty five degree bend at the end. (a tube without a forty five will work but the bend looks good, keeps the fender from sooting up and your licence plate from vibrating off. trust me.)
6 Slide the new exhaust tip into the muffler and tack it on. The internal muffler tube will keep the tip straight for welding.
7 Using your grinder grind off all pinch weld and the seam on the muffler above where the clutch arm on the engine is.
8 take a ball peen hammer and tap and carefully to make a concave area in the muffler directly above where the clutch arm would be. you might have to use the grinder (or file in a pinch) then hammer then grind, hammer, grind....fit..refit..fit.....
9 Once you have enough room for at least a quater inch gap for clutch arm, cable and weld clearance your almost there.
10 Weld it up. Bring it to a welding shop if you dont know how and ask them to TIG it if possible.
11 If you are fitting this pipe to a 138 you will also have to take the frame to muffler bracket off and use only one mounting stud on the muffler.  Drill another hole in the mounting bracket for a more forward fitting. Youll see what i mean.
12 Get a can of heat resistant grill paint and touch it up.
You WILL be fitting the pipe on while you are doing all of this!
If you want me to do it all for you or a want a one inch OD tube with a forty-five degree bend....my email address is mojo.moto@yahoo.com
If you get any of the auto clutched engines there will be no need to make the clutch arm dent in the muffler. Im pretty sure all you would have to do up to at least a 110 possibly a 125 is to put the larger exhaust tip on.
The wireing is really simple on these engines. my funrider is Jencheng so four out of the seven wires were different color. But if you can read your wiring diagram from your owners manual its eazy to find which wires go where. Just take the covers off your engine and look with your own two eyes where they go. If i was to do it all over again id probably buy a auto clutch 125cc Lifan. AND dont get an engine with a piggyback starter. Make sure the starter is under the cylinder. If you get a piggyback starter the stock muffler WONT fit.
I also put on a regular shocked front end with a front hydraulic disk brake setup. 365 bucks! Yea. Expensive. It does ride beter in the front with less braking flex and the disk is a little better than the drum especially on long hard stops (less fading). Looks good too. goes good with the chrome honda fenders.
Next....Im getting street tires....a smaller rear sprocket.....a rectangle hond seat......a honda gas cap.....different rear tail light.......and a repaint.
Ive used this motorcycle for 80 percent of my driving this year. It has been quite reliable. With the gearing and knobby tires i can go places four wheelers can only dream of, then down the street legaly.  I also have a stock lifan 70cc Z replica and it has alot more power than a 50cc engine. in fact i think the 50cc doesnt have enough power for the street. Really. On the street a person has to get on the boil sometime and a 50cc just wont cook.
Ill try to get a pic up if there is any intrest. if any body has any questions just ask. If you give these little buggers a lift they are alot of fun. Well off to visit friends on the other side of town. (on my 138 of course)
later.

4
Pitbull / Re: pitbull potential
« on: August 15, 2008, 09:13:33 AM »
Update:
My 138 pitbull is my main vehicle this summer. It has been very reliable.
Alot of people think its a Z50 (kinda is) and really like it. I recently put a regular hydraulic style fork on it and a hydraulic disk brake set up on it. It looks very cool for people who know z50s. The ride is nicer and there is less flex in the front when braking hard. my futre plans are to buy a smaller rear sprocket from CHP. first gear is useless on the street (handy on a trail...) and since i drive it on the street mostly i want to stretch out the top comfortable speed to 45-50. Ill be putting on honda fenders too. I put a pair on a 70 pitbull with a little work and really changes the look (for $120 it should) but for me they are worth it. Honda fenders are like little jewls. 2000 GSXR pegs fit with no mods too! The knobby tires will be replaced with street performace tires. I took of the mx exhaust off and put on an alterd orignal back on. It idles and starts better , has better mid range, and is much quieter. (if you want to do this yourself  ask an i will give instructions on this site) For the money you cant beat getting a big engine, not saying the 70 isnt good enough for the street (the 50cc is too slow for the street and is dangerous in my opinion). If a big engined pit bull is something you might be interested in.....first buy a 50cc pitbull (cheaper and are classified as a motorized bicycle in the title. may matter for licence) or a 70cc (eazier to hook up an engine with an electric start) if you arent handy in recrafting the stock exhaust and figuring out a hand clutch lever and cable (Hooper sells those too) you can buy a 125cc or 110cc engine with and automatic clutch from Hooper Imports. a 110 or 125 will fit with no exhaust mods. Besides an air filter and possible throttle cable everything  just bolts in.
I also bought a 70cc pit bull for an extra motorcycle to have around if the wife a friend wants to drive and for people who want to try one on the road (I sell Lifan too). the electric start is really nice and the gearing is perfect for the road. 40 mph comfortly. up to 50 if your in full tuck and arent too big.
I also bought a x-18 pocket bike with a honda styled 110 engine. Not impressed. the pitbull is much better made. The final drive and rear sprocket dont even line up! Not even close. so if anybody has and likes their x-18... im parting mine out.
when i get my honda fenders and street tires on my pitbull some pics will be posted here.
Do it!

5
Pitbull / pitbull potential
« on: November 13, 2007, 07:44:37 PM »
Ive got a panda funrider. its basicly the exact same thing as a pit bull.
there are alot of good points about these little "motorized bicycles"
thats how the 50cc is listed on the MSO so there are benefits.
if you can stand the lack of power (the 70cc version is probably a bit better and it has electric start) and can drive it as you were driving a bicycle (30 mph all out tops). you can get 150+ mpg all day long. i put a lifan 138cc oil cooled (converted to air cooled) engine in mine bought off Ebay. now it gets an awefull 125 or so mpg. the engine transformed the little guy into a great town bike. i put an 18 tooth counter sprocket on the engine to be able to make some use of first gear (still way too low for the street but about right for deer trails). i bought a pipe for a mini mx and chopped it down so the muffler fits where the original was. the end is aimed at my right rear shock and since its still running a tad rich is making my rear fender black with soot. oh well. the lighting is tons better too since there is a more powerfull alternator on the 138.
it is a ton of fun. wheelies are eazy. no yanking on the bars. just click into second and snap the throttle open a bit. third gear too with a bit more throttle. the brakes are fair, a bit woody but im used to sportbikes so...cornering is awesome. the tires are very soft and grippy although i have gotten the rear to step out on a dirty corner. the cops rubberneck (well they used to) to look for a plate, which it has. i can drive this where 4x4 wheelers cant fit and i can get there legaly on any road.  i plan on studing out a set of tires so i can take it ice fishing too. it would be great for getting to a tree stand too. not as obvious as a four wheeler on narrow trails.  if you want to save a bit on gas and live just a few miles form work id recomend this setup.  i have around  $1200 into it. if you buy a pit bull, engine, pipe, aircleaner, clutch cable and clutch lever at the same time a dealer should cut you a deal. the wiring is a simple 6 wire. three colored wires match right off and the other three can be figured out just by taking off the left engine cover. I tossed the battery from mine too. less to replace and works fine without one. if you figure in $3 to possibly $4 a gallon gas in the not so distant future the bike would pay for its self pretty quick. especially if you drive a vehicle that gets under 25mpg. do the math. no. really. do the math.

PS if your of the large of size- lifan sells a trail 110 that is a copy of the honda trail 70/90. it is a bit taller and more room.

6
Engine Kits / oil cooled 138cc to air cooled-how to
« on: November 13, 2007, 06:18:19 PM »
well the panda is doing well and is a fine and very fun commuter. the last time i checked the mileage it was 125mpg. the orignal 50cc engine was getting 157mpg. that is with trail driving and my commute to work which is a long steep climb out of town. the 138 "oil cooled engine" is really ment to be oil cooled in case anybody is wondering. if there isnt an oil cooler or connecting lines mounted to the engine oil feed holes the engines head will starve of oil and melt your head. there is a way around it. i figured since id be driving on the street and usually have good cooling (and no big globs of mud packed in the engine fins) the cooling should be fine without an oil cooler. this is how you do it.
1 drain your oil
2 take off your kick start
3 take out the right side clutch cover bolts
4 using a rubber mallet tap the covers edges to loosen the cover. wiggle it around and pull it off. be carefull not to tear the gasket (there also is a spacer washer on the kick start shaft so be sure to put it back on the shaft when you reassemble it)
5 get a  handdrill and put in a 1/8 drill bit.
6 drill a hole bettween the (exit) oil cooler plug cavity (it is the pressure side of the oil cooler feed that is a part of the right engine case) and the lower right head/cylinder bolt cavity (that headbolt helps secure the cylinder and head down and is also hollow supplying the cam and rockers with oil) in doing this you are bypassing the pressue side of the oil cavity directly into the oil feed head/cylinder bolt.
7 take out the oil cooler feed bolt. spray a solvent of some kind up and down the hole you just drilled to clean out the aluminum shavings you just made. do a good job. blow it out with an airhose if you have one. put the bolt back in.
7 put it back together.

7
Chit Chat / Re: Lifans, Love em or hate em
« on: October 03, 2007, 06:27:15 PM »
the paint is ok  the rubber ok  chrome is a little thin. blinkers crapola, mirrors toy like. yes chains are cheap. i soaked mine in oil for a day and put it on. hasnt stretched much. im looking for an o ring chain. most of what ive researched was mostly older stuff. ignition problems, coils....but i think its getting better. well to stay in business in the usa they have to. people in general take the time to write something when somethig goes wrong but if alls well thats that. its what people are used to.
if it was a honda it would be better. no lie. but it would cost twice as much. at least. if you like to tinker buying a lifan is a better idea. just put in a big engine repaint the bodywork and repalce the smaller cheep stuff. if you like stock buy a restored honda and take good care of it. dont let your kids or relitives drive it. EVER.

8
Engine Kits / Re: jincheng panda 138cc
« on: October 02, 2007, 07:12:13 PM »
the panda is pretty much like the lifan pitbull. exactly really. wiring is eazy. there are three wires that mach and three didnt. i just looked on the wiring diagram and took the flywheel cover and looked where the mystery wires were going. done. the lights on the bike work tons better too. the bike is registered as a motorized bicycle on the mso. i should be getting the title soon. if some one wants a set up like ive got a lifan dealer would give a good deal to someone buying a 50cc pitbull mx pipe and an engine. probably $1200. keep the orignal 50cc engine or sell on ebay or craigs list for a couple hundred would drop the price to $1000 bucks. quite a deal for a street legal screamer. some people in japan spend over 10 grand on their z50s. i think now a 110 would be a better street choice for an engine. probably last longer. and the stock exhaust with minor modifications would work fine. a good paint job does wonders for the looks and getting rid of the crapy way cheap signal lights. i painted mine a metalic green like my ZRX1200. id like to eventually buy honda chromed steel fenders too.

9
Chit Chat / Re: Lifans, Love em or hate em
« on: October 01, 2007, 08:44:59 PM »
well when i bought my motor off ebay the seller said no warrantee since it was a high performance engine. after i had the problem with the o ring i asked, didnt insist, to the repalce the head. after i sent the head in he told me to send the rest and he gave me a new engine. (his name in ebay is motorfreak. id recommend him even though he doesnt seem to know much about engines. he thought the head looked fine even though the rockers were melting to the cam lobes. he stands behind his stuff.)  im breaking it in right now. im fiddling with the low speed jet to get better response off the line. it seems to hesitate after the clutch is ingaged. just a little bit. after its warmed up its pretty wild. 2nd and 3rd gear wheelies. just throttle. the town i live in is surrounded by a big hill and when i go to work i drive up the hill. before the engine swap it was a 50. i would be going about 15 mph by the time i got to the top and in 2nd gear. better than my bicycle yea, but im used to driving an SV1000s so.....i wanted more. now up the hill in 4th and it can be going 30....just wick the throttle and the pace picks up now. a bit loud for my taste right now. has a visous rap to it.

10
at the moment i work as a machinest here in town (Glenwood)and after work i take out docks and boat lifts at the local town lake.(Minnewaska) after september ill have more time to get a tax number and have my shop zoned retail. it would be a extra thing to do. they are a lot of fun to ride and simple to work on. (the pitbull and trail anyway). i was thinking of working mostly with those to begin with. if people can put aside the biger is better idea they would find out that there is just right. a trail would be great for ice fishing and taking on dear trails hunting. plus they can be driven anywhere legaly in town too. they arent limmited like a four wheeler or snowmobile. 100mpg+ is pretty nice these days. snowmobiles get around 10. gas isnt getting cheaper. china and india are using more and more every day. supply and demand. I was also interested in SIKK brand of motorcycles. google them if you get the chance. they have a trail bike that is awesome. its half mountain bike and half  dirt bike. they use a honda style engine also.
later.

11
Engine Kits / jincheng panda 138cc
« on: September 30, 2007, 03:53:59 PM »
put a lifan 138cc in my 2000 panda "z50 copy".
i drive it to work and use it to run errands in town.
it goes at least 50mph and gets 100+ mpg. lots of fun and street legal.

12
Chit Chat / Re: Lifans, Love em or hate em
« on: September 30, 2007, 12:45:11 PM »
my 2 cents.
the design is 100 percent honda sound. (on the trail an mini)
the metalurgy, machining and fit are 85 to 90 percent honda.
the fininsh is 75 percent honda.
the price is 70 percent honda (if that).
lifan will continue to improve because its just plain makes business sense to fix the simple problems than to replace whole engines. if people buy from dealers with warrantees the dealers will send back problem engines or whatever back to the company. that cuts into profit for lifan. cant sell junk with a warrantee. not for long anyway.
i think though lifan needs to have better quality control and better finish for americans. spend 10 percent more on that and charge 10 percent more. a better fit and finish will bring in more people than the 10 percent increase in price will drive away. lifan will still be alot less expensive than a big four motorcycle.
ive been looking at some z50 and 90 trail sites and quite a few of the zealots dont like the "copys". mostly because they want to be special and have what is an expensive limited quanity babyboomer toy that is to be looked at, polished and never used. they also think it will cut into the value of their honda orignal. others like the fact they can take a basket case and make something fun and use it like it was intended without having to spend a small fortune.
there are quite afew people that swear by their lifan and have had no problems at all. if a person has no problems with thier lifan isnt that just as good as a honda with no problems?

ps  i own 5 hondas 3 yamahas 1 kawasaki 2suzukis 1lifan engined 138cc z50 "copy"
later

13
Chit Chat / big block jincheng panda / 138cc lifan installed the story.
« on: September 30, 2007, 11:37:23 AM »
hi
i had a 00 jincheng panda sitting around and not being used much except to give the kids a ride around the yard. then i got a wild hair and bought a 138cc lifan engine from ebay. to be honest it was a shot in the dark. i didnt know how it would work. i bought a xr dirt bike pipe when i bought the engine too because i was pretty sure the stock one would never fit (it will with modification). i got the engine and in about 2 hours of wrenching and wiring was riding it around. lots of power and much more fun. i turned in my mso and got licence the next day and started drivng it to work. it seemed like the perfect commuter/town bike. then it happened.....bad sounds with just enough power to keep it running...:-\...a friend with a truck brought me home. then i started to disassemble. my first thought was a ring broke and was causing drag and making the squeeking noise. took the head off, then the cylinder. to my surprise it looked great. piston was like new. cylinder looked freshly honed. i slowly turned the crank while holding the rod to feel for bad bearings. fine. then i looked at the head. dry. not good. the cam was scored and the rockers were bluing from heat and wearing into the lobes. no oil was getting to the head. now i knew there was oil in the engine so i thought the pump wasnt woking. nope. it turned out that upon assembly the oil galley to the head was mostly plugged by the o ring between the head and cylinder. a 5 cent part. i got ahold of the sales person i bought it from. first he offered to replace the head so i sent it in. he claimed he couldnt see any dammage. i dont think he knew what he was looking at but he offered to replace the whole engine. done. now this story doesnt seem like a glowing endorsement for lifan engines but remember this engine went almost 100 miles with next to no oil getting to the head. the o ring was, a stupid, yes, simple mistake. being able to see the quality of the internal parts impressed me enough to check into becoming a dealer myself.  if anybody wants to make their z50 a real motorcycle that isnt dangerous to drive in town from lack of power to get out of peoples way, find a good dealer and do it.  i is again a great town bike.
  to make first gear usable i bought a bigger counter sprocket. a 17t. if i find a 18t ill try it. top speed id say is least 50 mph. i weigh 160+. if i used a 110 engine with an auto cluch i think the stock pipe would work with minor mods (different pipe to frame mount and larger diameter exhaust tip)save some money and be quieter (a sleeper). if anybody wants to know which wires from the engine go to which wires from the harness on a jincheng panda, just ask.
with the orignal 50cc engine i drove 111 miles on .7 gallons of gas. the 138cc lifan still gets a little over 100mpg. they are fun, fast (in town), green, inexpensive, honda designed, eazy to work on, take up less space than a bicycle in the garage (or living room) and a great way of meeting people, if you find a good dealer that is. ::)
later. 

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